Iorwerth Drwyndwn ap Owain Gwynedd Prince of North Wales
(-Abt 1174)
Marared ferch Madog ap Maredudd
King John "Lackland" of England
Llywelyn the Great Prince of Gwynedd
(Abt 1173-1240)
Joan Princess of Gwynedd
(Bef 1200-Between 1236/1237)
Elen ferch Llywelyn Fawr
(Abt 1207-1253)


Family Links

1. Robert II de Quincy

Elen ferch Llywelyn Fawr 1 2

  • Born: Abt 1207
  • Marriage (1): Robert II de Quincy after 1237
  • Died: 1253 about age 46

   Other names for Elen were Helene, Elen verch Llywelyn and Helen verch Llywelyn.

  Research Notes:

If Robert II de Quincy was the husband of Hawise of Chester, Elen was his second wife. Magna Charta Barons lists only Elen and has her as the mother of his 3 daughters. Magna Charta Barons is not a reliable source.

From Wikipedia - Elen ferch Llywelyn :

Elen ferch Llywelyn (c. 1206 - 1253) was the daughter of Llywelyn the Great of Gwynedd in north Wales .

The records of Llywelyn's family are confusing, and it is not certain which of his children were illegitimate, but Elen appears to have been his legitimate daughter by Joan , illegitimate daughter of King John of England .

Elen married John de Scotia, Earl of Chester , in about 1222. He died aged thirty in 1237, and she re-married, her second husband being Sir Robert de Quincy . Their daughter, Hawise , was married to Baldwin Wake , Lord Wake of Lidel. Hawise and Baldwin's granddaughter, Margaret Wake , was the mother of Joan of Kent , later Princess of Wales. Thus the blood of Llywelyn Fawr passed into the English royal family through King Richard II .

There is also a record of a "Helen" daughter of "Llywelyn of Wales" who married Mormaer Maol Choluim II, Earl of Fife and later married Domhnall I, Earl of Mar . The dates appear to rule out this being Elen, since Maol Chaluim II did not die until 1266 while Elen's death is recorded in 1253. Some genealogists propose the existence of another Elen, an illegitimate daughter born towards the end of Llywelyn's life, but there is no clear evidence for this. Another possibility is that this Helen might have been an illegitimate daughter of Llywelyn the Last born when he was a young man, but there is also no evidence of the theory being true. More likely this lady was Susannah ferch Llywelyn ab Iorwerth , who was sent to England in 1228 and married the earl of Fife in the summer of 1237.[1]

Elen married Robert II de Quincy, son of Saher IV de Quincy 1st Earl of Winchester and Margaret de Beaumont, after 1237. (Robert II de Quincy died in 1257 in <Palestine>.)


1, Elen ferch Llywelyn.

2, Saer de Quincy, 1st Earl of Winchester.

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